PAPER: Condo market in DC, Vegas, Miami and Boston has collapsed... Developing...
MATT DRUDGE
Is it time to sell? Too who?
comments?
Monday, January 15, 2007
Hey everyone, Hope everything is grand and that you have your mittens ready now that winter is actually starting. My project Beyond the Book will be playing Southpaw this week with Heedoosh and Yossi Piamenta. There's going to be some some raucus rockin' going on that night, and it will be a great time. BEYOND THE BOOK with: Yoshie Fruchter: Guitar and vocals Avi Fox-Rosen: Guitar Benji Fox-Rosen: Bass Chris Berry: Drums @ SOUTHPAW (125 5th Avenue, Brooklyn) Thursday Jan. 18th, 7:30pm $15 in advance, $18 at the door ALSO, at Bowery Poetry Club on Feb. 8th, 7:30pm DIALECTICS OF DISTORTION, a showcase of new Jewish avante garde music featuring the Plain hex Quartet with Jake Marmers Frantic Turtle will be at Bowery Poetry Club on Feb. 8th. THE PLAIN HEX QUARTET Yoshie Fruchter: guitar Chris Hoffman: Cello Shanir Blumenkrantz: Bass Kevin Zubek: Drums
Jewish Music Cafe
Sway machinery rocked the house. Was anyone there to wiitness this? Fantastic.
Yashakoech to Eli Massias for creating what will be the hottest Jewish music scene ever.
Yashakoech to Eli Massias for creating what will be the hottest Jewish music scene ever.
That decrepit old Prospect Heights Shul
I visited that old building after a long time away. Old faces have gotten older and the building cosmetically held together by spit and fungus.
The Rabbi Schwartz is a tzaddik for his 5 mile walk from Boro Park. There barely is a minyan if it were not for a few Lubavitchers and a few homeless types who seem to show up for the free booze fest held afterwards.
Perhaps it is better to stay home.
The Rabbi Schwartz is a tzaddik for his 5 mile walk from Boro Park. There barely is a minyan if it were not for a few Lubavitchers and a few homeless types who seem to show up for the free booze fest held afterwards.
Perhaps it is better to stay home.
That decrepit old Prospect Heights Shul
I visited that old building after a long time away. Old faces have gotten older and the building cosmetically held together by spit and fungus.
The Rabbi Schwartz is a tzaddik for his 5 mile walk from Boro Park. There barely is a minyan if it were not for a few Lubavitchers and a few homeless types who seem to show up for the free booze fest held afterwards.
Perhaps it is better to stay home.
The Rabbi Schwartz is a tzaddik for his 5 mile walk from Boro Park. There barely is a minyan if it were not for a few Lubavitchers and a few homeless types who seem to show up for the free booze fest held afterwards.
Perhaps it is better to stay home.
Rabbi Shimon Hecht vs All of Downtown Brownstone Brooklyn; can anyone save him from himself?
mentalblog.com comments:
Rabbi Kirschenbaum is right and that is why Hecht will not show up for a Din TorahRebainu 01.02.07 - 8:10 pm #
So simple?Think about the "facts" presented by NY Mag -Hecht "has controlled" Park Slope for twenty years, and "has helped seed" his neighboring communities and Kirschenbaum "showed up in Prospect Heights three years ago." Did Hecht seed Kirschenbaum? Obviously not, since Frankel "is backed" by Hecht. So why and how did Kirschenbaum "show up" without Hecht's endorsement and support? Did Kirschenbaum try to slip into Hecht's controlled area without his approval? Might seem so, since Hecht already seeded "Brooklyn Heights, Dumbo, Cobble Hill, and Williamsburg," and is obviously into covering Brooklyn's spots, and supports Frankel. Why are "Lubavitch powers that be" named by the article's author as "Kastel, who supervises the New York–area Lubavitch emissaries" and not the real powers that be who govern Kastel's organization - Central Lubavitch (also located in Brooklyn)? What's their take on this? What IS Hecht's source of power and authority? Is Kastel, Hecht's superior? Would seem so if Kastel "supervises NY area emissaries." But seems not, if Hecht is operating and seeding others all over Brooklyn, including Frankel. If Kastel is in fact "the power" that is, why would he need a rabbinical court? Why can't he just pull out the rug from under Hecht - Yo! listen up or you're Ois Shliach!There's obviously power that Hecht has, that Kastel does not - a power that enables Hecht to operate in Brooklyn for "twenty years" and methodically "seed" his surrounding areas. And obviously Kirschenbaum, supported by Kastel (whose authority in relation to Hecht and his community is a question only addressable in rabbinical court) wishes to confront Hecht and whatever power he yields. Oh yes. There's more than meets the eye. It ain't just as simple as some innocent young cool/warm rabbi who is being squeezed out of some wide-open, uncharted, unowned, undeveloped land, by some old, inept, grizzled, inactive guard of the past. Maybe Hecht has power or authority which Kastel wishes to challenge, using Kirschenbaum. That's pretty sad for everyone with Hecht having the most to lose, since Kastel is just playing with other's lives and Kirschenbaum has yet to really sink anchor. If Kirschenbaum and Kastel were out for "greater good" they would find less volatile territory to spread the goodness and kindness to bring Moshiach.(There's no doubt in my mind that the writer, herself a resident in these "contested" neighborhoods, and herself a Jew(ess), offered her public, slanted pen as an effort to support Kirschenbaum and Kastel in their effort. The article reads with so myopic a view, that it almost read like an article that had a "continued on next page" without the next page).cross-eyed 01.02.07 - 10:08 pm #
'Hecht's controlled area'let's stop right here. We don't believe in this shit. Hecht controls his own house, and any other property he owns, that's it.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.02.07 - 10:10 pm #
All Lubavitcher disputes follow the same template. There is a Rabbi who has trouble articulating a thought and relies on people skills and intimidation and incumbency to maintain his position.And there is a person with a hint of charisma is considered to be threat because his skills appropriate to a Rabbi, namely he is articulate, has the ability to connect and feel.These skills are deemed to be threatening to the Lubavitch world order. All the conflicts follow this patters, it is boring. Down with monopolies. Down with territorial war lords, up with the spirit of Torah!Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.02.07 - 10:36 pm #
I am affraid that this is just the beginning, a drop in teh bucket as they sayor even better yetLET THE GAMES BEGINgebroktz 01.02.07 - 10:53 pm #
SORRY I SHOULD NOT HAVE SAID EVEN BETTER YETgebroktz 01.02.07 - 10:54 pm #
I agree with 'cross eyed' there is more to it than the article says. and kirschenbaum probably had a hand in it as well.also very good points to look in to.Respect 01.02.07 - 11:19 pm #
People like patterns and will connect dots even if they don't create a line by themselves. And they will connect dots to make lines that match something they wish to believe or see. That's part of the ugliness and roots of racism (or probably and ism, for that matter). But I don't want this to unhinge (to ism's). You can choose to latch on to the words "hecht's controlled area" (BTW, the term was from the article) because you have a pet peeve about Lubavitch cronyism and from which you can launch into a diatribe on a "pattern" found within all Lubavitch disputes. Or you can recognize the validity of a 20 year old position of supervision and pattern of expansion over and in a specific geographical area.You can strawman the fact that articulate professionalism might be lacking and therefore "threatening" in/to one chabad rep, to deflect the bright, painful-to-your-eyes light emanating from his rebbe-given rights as official rep and authority for a certain area. Or you can acknowledge that, as uncomfortable as it may seem, Hecht may in fact have a non-shit, logical right to decide who may be a chabad rep somewhere outside of his home's living room.I might agree with you in some Lubavitch squabbles, and disagree in others. I don't believe that all Lubavitch arguments have the same roots, nor do they have the same right/wrong players on certain sides.If you want to be a judge, then judge each and every case and each and every position on its/their own.Stick to what we have in the given situation without trying to blur things perhaps unknown to you to fit the boxes you've measured for all Lubavitch's woes.As I started. It ain't so simple.cross-eyed 01.02.07 - 11:32 pm #
I challenge anyone to go to meet Rabbi Hecht in person and see for yourself if he is a person looking for fights and power see if he is greedy and ignorant.Than go meet Rabbi kirschenbaum and see if he is a person capable of starting a fight to grow off someone else's had work b/c he has nothing to lose and everything to gain from this dispute. A young chabad guy who thinks he will take charge of the entire area overnight, but how will he do it?oh i got an idea lets start taking from someone else who is successful and honorable. why not nothing to lose and everything to gain. But he is my fellow brother, well then this is in the name of g-d.this is not a fight of g-d it is a fight b/w a "Rabbi" and a "lowlife"Rabbi Hecht i am sorry you have to go through all this.Hashem have pity.Mark K. 01.03.07 - 12:08 am #
I don't even know where to begin...I moved into the Park Slope community a few years ago with my husband, and at the suggestion of a friend attended (a bit tentatively, if I may add) Congregation Bnai Jacob for the Shabbat services.annonymous 01.03.07 - 12:14 am #
anonymous comments are not allowed on this blog.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 12:18 am #
"Down with territorial war lords"The fight is not about territorial crap. So don’t take sides when you nothing about the fight.Der Yid 01.03.07 - 1:38 am #
Before hecht begins to wage war on a "territory" hes neglected for years (ad kidai kach that in order for the old shul to survive ((to be mashlim their minyan)) anash from crown heights would walk every shabbos-including the rabbi who would walk rain snow sun or shine from boro park!- without any help or concern from hecht)i think he should work on mending his own community. It is no secret that there was a break off from bnai jacob and alot of resentment towards rabbi hecht in part due to his failure to open the books. (thats what i hear)aside from that though look at what is going on in prospect heights- a preschool- twenty or so years and hes got a preschool! kirschenbaum has done more peulos (including a preschool) in the span of three years. it should also be noted that before R.Kirschenbaum was appointed shliach he would walk to p.heights weekly to help with the minyan, arrange kiddushim, invite guests and finally move to an apartment in prospect heights before hecht even sneezed prospect heights way. in conclusion it would only seem logical that in looking to see whos instigating the 'fight' to look and see who has a record and history of having been involved in dispute in his own community. i also hear hecht has his mother lobbying for kirschenbaum to be barred from merkos events and recognition.ernest 01.03.07 - 9:15 am #
correction: "aside from that though look at what is going on in (prospect heights)..." i meant to say park slope.and i'd venture to say hecht and the whole ncfje is a farce and not only should he get the hell out of prospect heights but out of park slope as well. The "National" Commitee For The Furtherance of Jewish Education. National??? yeah maybe if you're delusional enough to believe the world begins on troy and ends on nostrand. Unless of course it means the fund to support hecht & co nationally. just take a look at the website and see for yourself the national programming. ncfje.orgthen check out the lavish dinner/fundraiser needed to raise funds for "rabbi riddles release time" (which pays a $5 stipend to the bochurim who run it!!- ahh thats where the cash goes!)etc. and check out the comments below the pictures. i wonder if these people have any idea what "programs" they are sponsoring. if every camp needed to make fundraising dinners like they do, it would be the end of homecooking as we know it!ernest 01.03.07 - 10:24 am #
http://www.crownheights.info/ind...id=3682&catid=3ernest 01.03.07 - 10:24 am #
ernest, you seem to hate all Hechts. But this about Park Slope only.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 10:44 am #
Ernest,I am not saying that the NCFJE is a perfect organization, nor am I a fan of the Hechts. But I must say they do alot of chesed. The provide tons of camps scholarships, help countless individuals, they support Hadar Hatorah and many other legitimate programs.alum 01.03.07 - 11:46 am #
earnest,You make it seem to know the situation good and know the areas even better.If i am not mistaken the shul of which you speak that kirschenbaum went to to help, isn't even in Prospect Heights it is actually located in Crown Heights where Shimon Hecht never claimed, Nor claims now to be in charge of. and concerning the neighborhood of Prospect heights how could he have possibly done something or opened something there in the last 20 years, 20 years ago the area was totally black and even I was afraid to walk through there on "Tahalucha", so opening a preschool, and now putting someone else there to help him in peulos, classes etc.(see article) is doing a lot for a neighborhood that is just over 30% white in the last 3 years. Think about it.ps when did Rabbi k. open a preschool where is it and whats it called.lucky 01.03.07 - 12:36 pm #
i certainly do not hate all hechts- i love rabbi peretz hecht shiyechye and from the little contact i've had with many of the hecht descendants i find a lot of (genetic) charisma and charm. what i do find to be appalling is the abuse and misuse of ones shlichus and mosad for nefarious (why does it seem that i see the word nefarious on this blog more than anywhere else?) purposes. and enough with this crap about shluchim doing no wrong - it's a discredit to the avodah, yegeya and mesirus nefesh of every shliach who upholds the standards he represents and preaches. "cross eyed" - after reading your post i think u should change your name to "brain dead" it defines you more than your vision problem.as to your repeated references to 'powers' ("Lubavitch powers that be" , "Hecht's source of power"..etc) what the !@#$ is this?? Star Wars? Mortal Kombat? we are talking people not force fields, humans who are fallible, capable of succumbing to threats, old ladies etc. and how do you know that kastel and merkos do not see eye to eye on this issue. everytime merkos makes a decision they have to contact some cross eyed fool? if tzach is in charge of new york than kastel is the one to take a stand not kotlarsky so if a little more machlokes is what you were hoping for that indeed you have vision problems because it's easy to see we have plently already.ernest 01.03.07 - 12:40 pm #
Mr. earnest, you definitely have some ill feelings toward the Hecht family, and this is not the place to let it out, especially that they are a family with nothing in it for themselves and always put our community first. if they did something to personally screw you get some professional help to take care of your obvious problems.so zip up or get the hell off the sitelucky 01.03.07 - 12:41 pm #
lucky, you name is fit for a dog. So know your place please. You are not a master of this domain.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 12:50 pm #
dear lucky i assume u didn't get to read my post before posting your analysis of my mental condition but thanks for your concern- i professed and reiterate my love of the few hechts i know, but even so i will retract any negative comments i made about the hechts and limit and contain my displeasure with shimon hechts treatment of kirschenbaum. and i appreciate that there may be more than meets the eye when it comes to ncfjes programs (maybe they use raised funds to feed every poor jewish woman and child- i couldn't help myself there) but it certainly doesn't justify strong armed tactics more in line with union/mob bosses.ernest 01.03.07 - 12:52 pm #
Lucky, (i know im posting a lot but the flu requires passing the time) what could hecht have done in a predominantly black neighberhood?1. send people to be mashlim the minyan there for starters. 2. include the rabbi who is moser nefesh to walk from boro park every shabbos in his vaad harabonim- (but who wants to join a board with arik raskin aka the giyur vending machine- just ask zions in s.america)3. kirschenbaum has opened a preschool from what i understand- the equivalent of all hechts educational programing in park slopeearnest 01.03.07 - 1:13 pm #
earnest, did you ever meet Shimon Hecht face to face, have you ever spoken to him and walked away thinking this man is a mobster, i know i have seen him many times in 770, and when i go to his menorah lightings. he seems to me like a person who strives to do what the rebbe wants, not create machlokos.I have seen Ari Kirschenbaum around and wont post what i know of him and think of him.that said being that i don't know any of them personally and don't know the inside of the fight, i don't judge and don't think it is right for you who doesn't know any of them to judge.but if you look at all the facts the area of that shul, the area 5 years ago, how many people living in Prospect Heights already go Shimon Hecht shul etc.. i think you wont be so quick to judge him and make like he is some form of power hungry mobster which is so far from the truth.lucky 01.03.07 - 1:41 pm #
did i ever see him face to face?? are appearances what you use to judge character? youre 'lucky' you haven't met any friendly looking serial killers. i tend to enjoy lively debate but with you i derive no pleasure.ernest 01.03.07 - 1:56 pm #
It is very easy to overlook the point and focus on 3 words. you are obviously one sided with no real interest for the truth, only to promote your wrath.My point is look at every detail of the argument before you judge and show everyone how ignorant you really are.lucky 01.03.07 - 2:41 pm #
earnest, you have to look at it with both eyes not only the left one.Rabbi Hecht is doing great things there for the community, and no Rabbi is perfect so if he was sent there by the Rebbe it is for the best of the community.Chaim ben Menachem 01.03.07 - 2:52 pm #
earnest, after reading all what you have to say, i come to the conclusion either all you write is fiction or you are a kirschenbaum yourself (and therefor write in such a one sided negative way).most definitely not clear minded and looking for a good "lively debate". for you reply to interesting points with one sided immaturity.peasach 01.03.07 - 3:47 pm #
Ari kirschenbaum for those that know him is one of the sliest people in the world. i dont blame anyone who doesn't want to work with him.ari d. 01.03.07 - 3:56 pm #
first of all whats with all the eyeball aphorisms being thrown at me. can we stop painting pathetic points with poetic lessons of which eye to use in order to answer or explain any of the issues i raised. eye think i've made my points. until then lets hope we can "further" jewish education everywhere. to assume bc i criticize hecht i must be a kirschenbaum is as absurd and one-sided a comment ever posted. but i think any honest informed indiviual would be proud to stand and say "i am a kirschenbaum". i would accuse you of being a hecht as well but they say the hechts are smart. so i think i shall retire now until next time why dont you talk with cross eyed and mr. spockernest 01.03.07 - 4:21 pm #
ernest, do not get discouraged by morons. Your point of view is important.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 4:24 pm #
thanks reb tzemachernest 01.03.07 - 4:26 pm #
earnest, when/where did ari open a preschool i didn't see it on col/ch.infobochur 01.03.07 - 5:16 pm #
Lubavitch indoctrinators should examine the following phenomena. A recurring patter emerged on this blog; it could be traced virtually to every single conversation. Faced with any argument a humanoid representing the official Chabad Inc. dogmatic view reverses to personal attack of his opponent, rather than argue the issue on its merits. The movement that purports to preach love produced thousands of Jews whose knee jerk reaction to contradiction is a viscous, mean and cowardly sucker punch. Back to Tony Montana rage.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 5:25 pm #
I though that I am the evil dogmatist on this issue, and I refuse to take a one way stand here. Where did this rant come from?guravitzer 01.03.07 - 8:01 pm #
Ernest- you sickened me to the bone. "A mentch is a shpigel"- so from all your comments, Kirshenbaum must be the RUDEST, most dim-witted person to have ever lived if you seem to be so attracted to him... I dont even know him (or Rabbi Hecht)- but all Kirshenbaum's supporters on this blog write such nasty things, that it reflects so badly on him... and don't diss other people's organizations until you understand what an organization entails. Something else struck me while reading the article... It says that "Rabbi Hecht declined to comment on Prospect Heights..." DOESN'T THAT SHOW STRENGTH OF CHARACTER???? OBVIOUSLY Rabbi Hecht has his opinions on Prospect Heights- YET HE MAINTAINED HIS POSITION AS A RABBI AND REFUSED TO BESMIRCH ANOTHER JEW- which is something Rabbi Kastel should learn from...Yaakov 01.03.07 - 8:21 pm #
Kirshenbaum did not start a preschool, there are a few former Crown Heights couples, that are now completly "modern" which moved to the Prospect Heights Neibohrhood a few years ago. Now that they have children, and heaven forfend to send them to a religous school, the couples got together and started their own montesorri pre-school, which Kirshenbaum happens to send his child to as well. Ernest I only have one issue with your writings: "but they say Hecht's are smart", who is "they" that say Hecht's are smart.That tidbit of info, is news to my ears. Don't get me wrong I love Hecht's they are, fun, big-hearted, life of the party kinda of people, but smart well.............smunkis 01.03.07 - 8:21 pm #
Don't say things that you will not say in people's faces. This is beyond the pale. smunkis, I don't know about Hechts but you are an idiot.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 8:24 pm #
I must be a complete and utter idiot, because I have no idea what your previous comment meant.I should have figured, how dare I, comment on the omnipotent Tzemach Atlas' blog.smunkis 01.03.07 - 8:59 pm #
read again nowTzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 9:01 pm #
I agree with cross-eyed... Ernest, you just can't forgin how a person could outsmart you, the journalist, and the article....Shmuly 01.03.07 - 9:16 pm #
Figured that's what should have been written, but couldn't dare question TA's writing, lest I'd then have to go through a complete thrashing, consisting mostly of verbal diarrhea. Which would eventually conclude with you kicking me off your blog, like the dictator you so yearn to be. And I would have hated for it to have to come to that, being that I love reading your writings, or as they call it around the water cooler: Atlas' Crap Stew.smunkis 01.03.07 - 9:18 pm #
smukis, we could do without anal references around here.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 9:21 pm #
I just want to mention something I just read from Rabbi Yaakov Sallanter- that a Rav who does not have issues is not a real Rav. (In other words- but the same point...) In my humble opinion, I believe that this is true because a Rav sticks to facts of halacha and refuses to budge from it- which might cause some discomfort to his congregants. But it is the RIGHT thing to do... I met Rabbi Hecht on a couple of occasions and share a personal relationship with him. I am also friendly with some of his congregants. ANYONE who was turned off by him was NOT because he is insensitive (he actually is a very sentimental, sensitive person). Rather because his decisions ultimately did not sway one iota from the halacha. So regarding the fact that some of the people that posted mentioned that Ari Kirshenbaum has built up his shul on Rabbi Hecht's anti's, and on my own (and others) personal knowledge of Rabbi Hecht's character, I can safely claim two facts: 1) Rabbi Hecht is a man of integrity and halacha 2) If all the people that got turned off because of Rabbi Hecht went to Kirshenbaum (and that was all because of a halachic decision THEY did not like), then something must be halachically wrong with Ari.Eli 01.03.07 - 9:47 pm #
Ernest -My “repeated references” to “power” were quotes from an article in the NY Mag that started this thread, and off whose link we hang, here on Master TA’s domain. Sorry to hear you’ve got the flu, but it also allows me to excuse your shallow and off-topic rants that do little to blunt my comments and questions. I leave it to the reader who cares to study what’s written, to judge whether I’m brain-dead and whether you’ve just got sick-time on your hands with no head-space for pithy thoughts and simply wish to feed your addiction for debates. Or whether you are sicker than with just the flu. If you offered a semblance of response there would be what to “debate”, though I don’t seek debates. All you did is spew venom in a sweeping, circular motion. Replace the names involved in the current matter with names of people and organizations you don’t know. Focus on the facts you do know about the matter. Are they enough to render an opinion? If yes, do you still have a passionate and logical position to offer?cross-eyed 01.03.07 - 9:51 pm #
I don't know who this Ari or Rabbi Hecht is, but the notions that I perceived from this article were that:1)Kirshenbaum was behind this entire article2)I agree with Yaakov that Rabbi Hecht has his opinion, but has too much integrity to bad-mouth another Jew.Brad 01.03.07 - 9:52 pm #
cross-eyed you say what should be said. keep it up!Daniel 01.03.07 - 9:59 pm #
TA – You’re stuck on “patterns” you find “on this blog” (it’s more like you are drawn magnetically to them). Cute. This is your blog. You select the links and topics, direct and select response traffic… kinda hard not to like what you concoct (pattern) yourself. And you clearly own, with or without your blog and its “patterns,” some strong anti-Chabad Inc and Lubavitch-system sentiments. I’m with you on anti-cronyism and some other anti rants found here by you. But if you were half as smart as you think you are, you’d be able to step back often enough to recognize that the human weaknesses you wish to staple to a “movement” or “Inc” actually cut across every delineating line of human identity. You’ve got some personal unresolved hooks in the quicksand of organized, luba-ortho-judeo-religion. Resolving them is not as easy as cowardly sucker-punching “the movement.” Those who own a position which they aren’t intellectually strong enough to support, or one that is in fact unsupportable, do tend to resort to anything they can get their logical hands on, including personal attacks, and cowardly things. That’s got nothing to do with a movement. Lubavitch is not a person. It’s a concept. A lubavitcher is an individual, regardless of what label he chooses for himself or which shingle he wishes to hang outside his door. Judge him and his actions individually. Chassidus is not a person. It’s a theology. A chosid is an individual. Judge him on his own. “A humanoid representing the official Chabad Inc. dogmatic view” is just one humanoid. He may have personal shortcomings, which have nothing to do with theology. “The movement that purports to preach love” – movements don’t preach, people do. A movement may have official membership rules as to what and how and where to preach, but the preaching is done by individuals. Individual people produce “viscous, mean and cowardly sucker punch{s}”. People from all cultures do that. (It’s when a movement in its “bible” preaches hate, or edicts cowardly punches that one can focus on the movement).Overweight, smoking, drinking, couch potato doctors do not delegitimize the entire medical apparatus and all its theologies and knowledge.Separate your own personal issues from the movement that you may feel orphaned you. Maybe apply Koebler Ross’ steps to you and your dream of what Chabad/Lubavitch “is”. Anything ugly you apply as a rule to a *group* probably is from within yourself anyway. (Yes there are exceptions).Sorry, I’ve run out of energy for this. So my ramble stops here.I wish you a well-rounded, happy, rich existence that will enable more of the lucid, deep intelligence you own to blossom, so that our shared earth can be better, and less of the festering, poisonous acid that corrodes you and your container – the rest of us on earth.cross-eyed 01.03.07 - 10:36 pm #
Kol Hakavod cross-eyedJosh 01.03.07 - 10:57 pm #
Anybody who knows Kirschenbaum, would tell you outright that he would never hang his laundry in the press. he is wise beyond his years, non confrontational and caring. In fact he has taken the highroad for the past 3 years as hecht has time and again publicly disrespected kirschenbaum's official position as the prospect heights shliach by taking out ads in public papers as well as his own fictional publication and writing letters in public, placing them on public forum in which he used to try and misguide local residents. kirschnbaum has never dignified anything negative or responded to the many slurs and insults hurled at him. And for that he is to be lauded. What he has accomplished in his short time is simply historic. For the record, for those of you who simply make comments based on a three piece paragraph in a ny magazine, it would be wise to consider the following.. The author Debra N. Cohen is a local brooklyn resident who has had her issues with rabbi hecht in the past and through the power of the pen used her talent primarily at poking at orthodoxy and lubavitch in particular, both in her capacity as editor of the jewish week of ny and other media outlets. Simply put, she lives, hears, sees and understands all that transpires in a neighborhood no larger some of the starbucks in ny city. You don't have to be a genius to see the transparency in hects actions as they relate to Kirschenbaum and the prospect heights community. Interesting though, as a fort greene resident myself and part time attendee to kol Israel synagogue through the years, I can honestly say that for the 20 years he has resided in park slope he hasn't once done anything on behalf of our beloved house of worship and its jewish community, he wouldn't know if Charlton was a street name or an animated fictional children's character. Its obvious to all. What does Kirschenbaum stand to gain by letting the locals know that there is a rift by putting into the public domain? Wouldn't that make him look bad too? Where's As far as hecht's relationship with the other local Chabad rabbi's in the area. clearly stated. He does not get along with anybody, rabbi pinson no longer gives a class at his temple and hasn't for some time now, and has opened his own synagogue. R. cheikoff in dumbo is no longer under his nephew's (raskin's) jurisdiction now that the official Chabad board has removed him from his authority. So much for them all getting along. What's interesting is, is that hecht and his own nephew cant get along themselvesunless of course their united in destroying someone else. And indeed, hecht and his cronies (namely family members) should indeed feel threatened, for as Kirschenbaum, pinson and cheikoff continue to gain steam and popularity throughout brownstone brooklyn hecht is still stuck in the batters looking at a called strike three. To be sure pinson and Kirschenbaum give wonderful lectures and are warm human beings, something none has ever accused hecht of being. If only the man focused on cultivating his own area of park slope, large enough to contain 2-3 additional lubavitch rabbi's as well as many more jewish organizations, his life and legacy would be better off, but alas he is too worried about others people success. Indeed a shame. Poor frankel who works hard to make a living as a Judaica store cashier who innocently moved into an apartment owned by a hecht suporter only to be exploited by his own uncle for his personal agenda. Manipulation in the highest degree. The poor guy probably does not know what hit him. and mr. atlas, while i most of the time i find myself disagreeing with you, i must say you are right on the money on this one.ElliotElliot 01.04.07 - 12:06 am #
"and mr. atlas, while i most of the time i find myself disagreeing with you, i must say you are right on the money on this one."I don't have an opinion on this issue.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.04.07 - 12:11 am #
Elliot- I just can't help wondering where you get all your information from... and why you feel the need to post more slander against a Rabbi you apparently don't know...(that's Hecht and Frankel mainly). Rabbi Hecht has been accused of much greater things than just good lectures....And following your whole baseball metaphor, Hecht is more in the position of the umpire behind the batter with the ability to CALL the strike three, than any other position...Oh, and please don't be so righteous as to feel "so bad" for a "poor guy" named Tali, who "didn't know what hit him..." Tali knows exactly what hit him. He is an amazing guy with a heart as large as cosmic space, and he is well-loved and admired by EVERY SINGLE person (yes, even Kirshy's supporters...). And he has accomplished a tremendous amount in the short while that he has been here.Keep in mind that these are MY Rabbi's that you are dissing- and I don't appreciate it one bit. Get your facts straight and then come back and rewrite it.Elliot Jr. 01.04.07 - 12:41 am #
I wonder what happened to 'earnest', haven't seen from him in a while.What a shame there wont be any more "lively debates".Its never to late to do Teshuvah.lucky 01.04.07 - 1:55 am #
What a wonderful 'show'Keep it up Lubabs, you are losing more respect with everyone of your hateful posts.I'm talking to both sides.On the flipside there is one positive outcome from this fight:Anybody reading this site or hearing about this and similar stories will realize that their charity money is much better spent giving to real Jews, not a corporation called Lubavitch.Amanda 01.04.07 - 2:23 am #
yes better given to world jewich congress and the fereation to plant trees and every other pseudo judaic cause you can think of. lucky- im still here and prefer to be a spectator. i just enjoy watching people who demand facts and when they are presented by a knowledgable source they resort to 'elliot jr' like sentimental junk about cosmic hearts. once again we return to the sci-fi retorts.ernest 01.04.07 - 2:40 am #
not to mention funding legal fees, employee payouts etcahem 01.04.07 - 5:18 am #
I suspect many of the people writing on this blog regarding this issue are one and the same writing under different titles. It doesn't matter how much or how little Rabbi Hecht performs. According to Jewish Law there is no allowance for usurping, sidelining etc. someone from his position only because someone can do better, or becuase someone has some better ideas how to run the existing persons business. There must be legal halachik reasons to "eliminate" or "reduce" someone from his position. That's just the way G-d set it out. We don't install a side bar Rabbi in a Shul because Rabbi #2 is more liked or more qualified.G-d has set standards, and it's G-ds rules that make us Jewish people tick.Rabbi Hecht could be this or that, if it is his "territory" yes territory, just like saying, if its his Shul and these are the boundaries of his shul, no other Rabbi has a right to enter his jurisdiction without cooperation with the one who was there first.In civil societies we recognize this concept in all areas of industry, unless, you enter the world where "everyone eats the other alive".my opinion 01.04.07 - 10:41 am #
The current fracas in park slope is very different from the usual Chabad territorial disputes seen elsewhere. Unlike what Atlas is saying which is main stream mushroom philosophy, both sides believe in territorial control but each side claims to be the true proprietor. The park slope conflict is so unique because it’s a foreshadowing of things to come. NCFJE and Tzach are both sixty year old legitimate originations founded by the Rebbe. Rabbi Hecht and Kirshenbaum both are recognized by their different factions, invited to the kinnus and have access to the privete shluchim websites. And more importantly neither one can win support from Vaad Raboni Lubavitch. Whether you agree with it or not, 97% of the Shluchim believe in and accept the concept of central authority, head shluchim and territorial ownership. Look at the attendance of the unofficial Kinnus Hashluchim, which can’t even drew a hundred. However all this will change the minute the old geezers start kicking the bucket. Buried with them will be head Shliachus and central authority, replaced with many different factions claiming authority, which will eventually lead to everybody breaking up and becoming totally independent. I highly doubt there will be then a Kinnus or a private shluchim website. Park slope might just be the first dispute of that era.personally, I think Kirshenbaum is wrong and it has nothing to do with Chabad or territory. A twenty six year old pisher opened a synagogue in an area where a rabbi who’s old enough to be his father already has a congregation. Ok, he’s allowed. but on his first Pesech instead of attempting to have some sort of peaceful relationship, calls up the senior (older) rabbis congregation and attempts convince them to come to his own Seder and not rabbi Hechts disregarding basic moral ethical behavior. by Kirshenbaum's next board meeting, zul er huben a fully Burd!Der Yid 01.05.07 - 12:19 am #
Der Yid, when the old timers start to go I fear it will be far worse then everyone just "becoming totally independent". The system in place will implode with the likes of certain children of head shluchim taking the helm of leadership when they are far more suitable to be janitors in 770 Eastern Parkway.If they felt any sense of responsibility and commitment to Lubavitch then the leadership today would make this priority number one. They would set up a system of management and administration for future generations thereby preventing numerous problems that are bound to happen. No one is living forever (until the coming of Moshiach Tzidkenu ). The issues and confusion in this area that we have today are minuscule compared to the issues we are going to face in 20-30 years from now.Just A Guy 01.05.07 - 10:19 am #
"world jewich congress and the fereation to plant trees and every other pseudo judaic cause you can think of"Sigh. Its Keren Kayemet Leisrael, Jewish National Fund, that plants the trees. Federations supports social, educational, charitable purposes in local metro areas. Such "pseudojudaic" causes as senior citizens centers, hospitals, preschools, day schools, etc, etc. Which are open to and used by Jews of all trends. Note - Prospect heights is the area across from the Library and Brklyn Museum. Adjacent to Park Slope, but not the same area. Theres a very historic Reform shul there. In Pk Slope there is of course Beth Elohim (Reform) and Park Slope Jewish Center (Cons) as well as a modern O shul whose name I forget.justayid 01.05.07 - 10:34 am #
Don't know Hecht. The level of Kirschenbaum's success, B"H, is quite amazing, despite the fact that he is a great guy. Somebody up there likes him!Maimonides 01.05.07 - 10:55 am #
I would like to give maybe a bit of background in general on the Hecht’s and how they took the legacy of J.J Heact which is not clean at all as the world makes him:The Heact family is currently involved in many good things like:Din Torah one: Heact/Kaplan in Miami conflict with Rabbi Lifshets there.Din Torah two: Heact and the Chabad yeshiva in Monsey.Din Torah three: Heact and LYO.But to end off on a good note did i learn anything from theis people? The answer is yes from Shea Heact and I’ll explain:1. You red yarmulke or “kipa” it’s just so cool! When you’re walking with your kids together it’s unbelievable! A hall bunch of red kippas!2. Your down hat when both sides of your brim are down its unbelievable! (Did you realize yourself how cool it is?) 3. The amount of money you maid after Ari Halberstam was killed because you said kids in his class needed doctors! You’re really talented! Machon Chana: they where unable to keep the school going because a lack of funds then the closed it down do ms. L knowing how much Agmas Nefhes the Rebbe would have from it single handedly kept the school going the Hecht’s then succeeded to implement in peoples heads “that she stole the Rebbe”s Mosed”. Hadar torah: they take credit for that to! While for the last 10 years in their summer program called IV leg that has horrible attendants that something which fell apart also I believe they had 7 students there last summer! Thank g-d mayanot opened and gets most students for the summer. Aside for that they don’t give a penny to Hadar torah aside for the space which they make Silberstein pay theme for! There is a yid yakov Silberstein which funds the yeshiva single handedly! (but when the Hadar torah journal comes out the heact”s make sure that there is a big picture of J.J Heact there)moshe shua. 01.05.07 - 12:12 pm #
Just a guy Twenty or thirty years, which would make Avromel only 110?Der Yid 01.05.07 - 12:32 pm #
Avremel is 70Just A Guy 01.05.07 - 1:07 pm #
Who cares about all these Lubavitcher charlatans?Let's have some interesting postsRonnie 01.07.07 - 2:14 am #
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Rabbi Kirschenbaum is right and that is why Hecht will not show up for a Din TorahRebainu 01.02.07 - 8:10 pm #
So simple?Think about the "facts" presented by NY Mag -Hecht "has controlled" Park Slope for twenty years, and "has helped seed" his neighboring communities and Kirschenbaum "showed up in Prospect Heights three years ago." Did Hecht seed Kirschenbaum? Obviously not, since Frankel "is backed" by Hecht. So why and how did Kirschenbaum "show up" without Hecht's endorsement and support? Did Kirschenbaum try to slip into Hecht's controlled area without his approval? Might seem so, since Hecht already seeded "Brooklyn Heights, Dumbo, Cobble Hill, and Williamsburg," and is obviously into covering Brooklyn's spots, and supports Frankel. Why are "Lubavitch powers that be" named by the article's author as "Kastel, who supervises the New York–area Lubavitch emissaries" and not the real powers that be who govern Kastel's organization - Central Lubavitch (also located in Brooklyn)? What's their take on this? What IS Hecht's source of power and authority? Is Kastel, Hecht's superior? Would seem so if Kastel "supervises NY area emissaries." But seems not, if Hecht is operating and seeding others all over Brooklyn, including Frankel. If Kastel is in fact "the power" that is, why would he need a rabbinical court? Why can't he just pull out the rug from under Hecht - Yo! listen up or you're Ois Shliach!There's obviously power that Hecht has, that Kastel does not - a power that enables Hecht to operate in Brooklyn for "twenty years" and methodically "seed" his surrounding areas. And obviously Kirschenbaum, supported by Kastel (whose authority in relation to Hecht and his community is a question only addressable in rabbinical court) wishes to confront Hecht and whatever power he yields. Oh yes. There's more than meets the eye. It ain't just as simple as some innocent young cool/warm rabbi who is being squeezed out of some wide-open, uncharted, unowned, undeveloped land, by some old, inept, grizzled, inactive guard of the past. Maybe Hecht has power or authority which Kastel wishes to challenge, using Kirschenbaum. That's pretty sad for everyone with Hecht having the most to lose, since Kastel is just playing with other's lives and Kirschenbaum has yet to really sink anchor. If Kirschenbaum and Kastel were out for "greater good" they would find less volatile territory to spread the goodness and kindness to bring Moshiach.(There's no doubt in my mind that the writer, herself a resident in these "contested" neighborhoods, and herself a Jew(ess), offered her public, slanted pen as an effort to support Kirschenbaum and Kastel in their effort. The article reads with so myopic a view, that it almost read like an article that had a "continued on next page" without the next page).cross-eyed 01.02.07 - 10:08 pm #
'Hecht's controlled area'let's stop right here. We don't believe in this shit. Hecht controls his own house, and any other property he owns, that's it.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.02.07 - 10:10 pm #
All Lubavitcher disputes follow the same template. There is a Rabbi who has trouble articulating a thought and relies on people skills and intimidation and incumbency to maintain his position.And there is a person with a hint of charisma is considered to be threat because his skills appropriate to a Rabbi, namely he is articulate, has the ability to connect and feel.These skills are deemed to be threatening to the Lubavitch world order. All the conflicts follow this patters, it is boring. Down with monopolies. Down with territorial war lords, up with the spirit of Torah!Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.02.07 - 10:36 pm #
I am affraid that this is just the beginning, a drop in teh bucket as they sayor even better yetLET THE GAMES BEGINgebroktz 01.02.07 - 10:53 pm #
SORRY I SHOULD NOT HAVE SAID EVEN BETTER YETgebroktz 01.02.07 - 10:54 pm #
I agree with 'cross eyed' there is more to it than the article says. and kirschenbaum probably had a hand in it as well.also very good points to look in to.Respect 01.02.07 - 11:19 pm #
People like patterns and will connect dots even if they don't create a line by themselves. And they will connect dots to make lines that match something they wish to believe or see. That's part of the ugliness and roots of racism (or probably and ism, for that matter). But I don't want this to unhinge (to ism's). You can choose to latch on to the words "hecht's controlled area" (BTW, the term was from the article) because you have a pet peeve about Lubavitch cronyism and from which you can launch into a diatribe on a "pattern" found within all Lubavitch disputes. Or you can recognize the validity of a 20 year old position of supervision and pattern of expansion over and in a specific geographical area.You can strawman the fact that articulate professionalism might be lacking and therefore "threatening" in/to one chabad rep, to deflect the bright, painful-to-your-eyes light emanating from his rebbe-given rights as official rep and authority for a certain area. Or you can acknowledge that, as uncomfortable as it may seem, Hecht may in fact have a non-shit, logical right to decide who may be a chabad rep somewhere outside of his home's living room.I might agree with you in some Lubavitch squabbles, and disagree in others. I don't believe that all Lubavitch arguments have the same roots, nor do they have the same right/wrong players on certain sides.If you want to be a judge, then judge each and every case and each and every position on its/their own.Stick to what we have in the given situation without trying to blur things perhaps unknown to you to fit the boxes you've measured for all Lubavitch's woes.As I started. It ain't so simple.cross-eyed 01.02.07 - 11:32 pm #
I challenge anyone to go to meet Rabbi Hecht in person and see for yourself if he is a person looking for fights and power see if he is greedy and ignorant.Than go meet Rabbi kirschenbaum and see if he is a person capable of starting a fight to grow off someone else's had work b/c he has nothing to lose and everything to gain from this dispute. A young chabad guy who thinks he will take charge of the entire area overnight, but how will he do it?oh i got an idea lets start taking from someone else who is successful and honorable. why not nothing to lose and everything to gain. But he is my fellow brother, well then this is in the name of g-d.this is not a fight of g-d it is a fight b/w a "Rabbi" and a "lowlife"Rabbi Hecht i am sorry you have to go through all this.Hashem have pity.Mark K. 01.03.07 - 12:08 am #
I don't even know where to begin...I moved into the Park Slope community a few years ago with my husband, and at the suggestion of a friend attended (a bit tentatively, if I may add) Congregation Bnai Jacob for the Shabbat services.annonymous 01.03.07 - 12:14 am #
anonymous comments are not allowed on this blog.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 12:18 am #
"Down with territorial war lords"The fight is not about territorial crap. So don’t take sides when you nothing about the fight.Der Yid 01.03.07 - 1:38 am #
Before hecht begins to wage war on a "territory" hes neglected for years (ad kidai kach that in order for the old shul to survive ((to be mashlim their minyan)) anash from crown heights would walk every shabbos-including the rabbi who would walk rain snow sun or shine from boro park!- without any help or concern from hecht)i think he should work on mending his own community. It is no secret that there was a break off from bnai jacob and alot of resentment towards rabbi hecht in part due to his failure to open the books. (thats what i hear)aside from that though look at what is going on in prospect heights- a preschool- twenty or so years and hes got a preschool! kirschenbaum has done more peulos (including a preschool) in the span of three years. it should also be noted that before R.Kirschenbaum was appointed shliach he would walk to p.heights weekly to help with the minyan, arrange kiddushim, invite guests and finally move to an apartment in prospect heights before hecht even sneezed prospect heights way. in conclusion it would only seem logical that in looking to see whos instigating the 'fight' to look and see who has a record and history of having been involved in dispute in his own community. i also hear hecht has his mother lobbying for kirschenbaum to be barred from merkos events and recognition.ernest 01.03.07 - 9:15 am #
correction: "aside from that though look at what is going on in (prospect heights)..." i meant to say park slope.and i'd venture to say hecht and the whole ncfje is a farce and not only should he get the hell out of prospect heights but out of park slope as well. The "National" Commitee For The Furtherance of Jewish Education. National??? yeah maybe if you're delusional enough to believe the world begins on troy and ends on nostrand. Unless of course it means the fund to support hecht & co nationally. just take a look at the website and see for yourself the national programming. ncfje.orgthen check out the lavish dinner/fundraiser needed to raise funds for "rabbi riddles release time" (which pays a $5 stipend to the bochurim who run it!!- ahh thats where the cash goes!)etc. and check out the comments below the pictures. i wonder if these people have any idea what "programs" they are sponsoring. if every camp needed to make fundraising dinners like they do, it would be the end of homecooking as we know it!ernest 01.03.07 - 10:24 am #
http://www.crownheights.info/ind...id=3682&catid=3ernest 01.03.07 - 10:24 am #
ernest, you seem to hate all Hechts. But this about Park Slope only.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 10:44 am #
Ernest,I am not saying that the NCFJE is a perfect organization, nor am I a fan of the Hechts. But I must say they do alot of chesed. The provide tons of camps scholarships, help countless individuals, they support Hadar Hatorah and many other legitimate programs.alum 01.03.07 - 11:46 am #
earnest,You make it seem to know the situation good and know the areas even better.If i am not mistaken the shul of which you speak that kirschenbaum went to to help, isn't even in Prospect Heights it is actually located in Crown Heights where Shimon Hecht never claimed, Nor claims now to be in charge of. and concerning the neighborhood of Prospect heights how could he have possibly done something or opened something there in the last 20 years, 20 years ago the area was totally black and even I was afraid to walk through there on "Tahalucha", so opening a preschool, and now putting someone else there to help him in peulos, classes etc.(see article) is doing a lot for a neighborhood that is just over 30% white in the last 3 years. Think about it.ps when did Rabbi k. open a preschool where is it and whats it called.lucky 01.03.07 - 12:36 pm #
i certainly do not hate all hechts- i love rabbi peretz hecht shiyechye and from the little contact i've had with many of the hecht descendants i find a lot of (genetic) charisma and charm. what i do find to be appalling is the abuse and misuse of ones shlichus and mosad for nefarious (why does it seem that i see the word nefarious on this blog more than anywhere else?) purposes. and enough with this crap about shluchim doing no wrong - it's a discredit to the avodah, yegeya and mesirus nefesh of every shliach who upholds the standards he represents and preaches. "cross eyed" - after reading your post i think u should change your name to "brain dead" it defines you more than your vision problem.as to your repeated references to 'powers' ("Lubavitch powers that be" , "Hecht's source of power"..etc) what the !@#$ is this?? Star Wars? Mortal Kombat? we are talking people not force fields, humans who are fallible, capable of succumbing to threats, old ladies etc. and how do you know that kastel and merkos do not see eye to eye on this issue. everytime merkos makes a decision they have to contact some cross eyed fool? if tzach is in charge of new york than kastel is the one to take a stand not kotlarsky so if a little more machlokes is what you were hoping for that indeed you have vision problems because it's easy to see we have plently already.ernest 01.03.07 - 12:40 pm #
Mr. earnest, you definitely have some ill feelings toward the Hecht family, and this is not the place to let it out, especially that they are a family with nothing in it for themselves and always put our community first. if they did something to personally screw you get some professional help to take care of your obvious problems.so zip up or get the hell off the sitelucky 01.03.07 - 12:41 pm #
lucky, you name is fit for a dog. So know your place please. You are not a master of this domain.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 12:50 pm #
dear lucky i assume u didn't get to read my post before posting your analysis of my mental condition but thanks for your concern- i professed and reiterate my love of the few hechts i know, but even so i will retract any negative comments i made about the hechts and limit and contain my displeasure with shimon hechts treatment of kirschenbaum. and i appreciate that there may be more than meets the eye when it comes to ncfjes programs (maybe they use raised funds to feed every poor jewish woman and child- i couldn't help myself there) but it certainly doesn't justify strong armed tactics more in line with union/mob bosses.ernest 01.03.07 - 12:52 pm #
Lucky, (i know im posting a lot but the flu requires passing the time) what could hecht have done in a predominantly black neighberhood?1. send people to be mashlim the minyan there for starters. 2. include the rabbi who is moser nefesh to walk from boro park every shabbos in his vaad harabonim- (but who wants to join a board with arik raskin aka the giyur vending machine- just ask zions in s.america)3. kirschenbaum has opened a preschool from what i understand- the equivalent of all hechts educational programing in park slopeearnest 01.03.07 - 1:13 pm #
earnest, did you ever meet Shimon Hecht face to face, have you ever spoken to him and walked away thinking this man is a mobster, i know i have seen him many times in 770, and when i go to his menorah lightings. he seems to me like a person who strives to do what the rebbe wants, not create machlokos.I have seen Ari Kirschenbaum around and wont post what i know of him and think of him.that said being that i don't know any of them personally and don't know the inside of the fight, i don't judge and don't think it is right for you who doesn't know any of them to judge.but if you look at all the facts the area of that shul, the area 5 years ago, how many people living in Prospect Heights already go Shimon Hecht shul etc.. i think you wont be so quick to judge him and make like he is some form of power hungry mobster which is so far from the truth.lucky 01.03.07 - 1:41 pm #
did i ever see him face to face?? are appearances what you use to judge character? youre 'lucky' you haven't met any friendly looking serial killers. i tend to enjoy lively debate but with you i derive no pleasure.ernest 01.03.07 - 1:56 pm #
It is very easy to overlook the point and focus on 3 words. you are obviously one sided with no real interest for the truth, only to promote your wrath.My point is look at every detail of the argument before you judge and show everyone how ignorant you really are.lucky 01.03.07 - 2:41 pm #
earnest, you have to look at it with both eyes not only the left one.Rabbi Hecht is doing great things there for the community, and no Rabbi is perfect so if he was sent there by the Rebbe it is for the best of the community.Chaim ben Menachem 01.03.07 - 2:52 pm #
earnest, after reading all what you have to say, i come to the conclusion either all you write is fiction or you are a kirschenbaum yourself (and therefor write in such a one sided negative way).most definitely not clear minded and looking for a good "lively debate". for you reply to interesting points with one sided immaturity.peasach 01.03.07 - 3:47 pm #
Ari kirschenbaum for those that know him is one of the sliest people in the world. i dont blame anyone who doesn't want to work with him.ari d. 01.03.07 - 3:56 pm #
first of all whats with all the eyeball aphorisms being thrown at me. can we stop painting pathetic points with poetic lessons of which eye to use in order to answer or explain any of the issues i raised. eye think i've made my points. until then lets hope we can "further" jewish education everywhere. to assume bc i criticize hecht i must be a kirschenbaum is as absurd and one-sided a comment ever posted. but i think any honest informed indiviual would be proud to stand and say "i am a kirschenbaum". i would accuse you of being a hecht as well but they say the hechts are smart. so i think i shall retire now until next time why dont you talk with cross eyed and mr. spockernest 01.03.07 - 4:21 pm #
ernest, do not get discouraged by morons. Your point of view is important.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 4:24 pm #
thanks reb tzemachernest 01.03.07 - 4:26 pm #
earnest, when/where did ari open a preschool i didn't see it on col/ch.infobochur 01.03.07 - 5:16 pm #
Lubavitch indoctrinators should examine the following phenomena. A recurring patter emerged on this blog; it could be traced virtually to every single conversation. Faced with any argument a humanoid representing the official Chabad Inc. dogmatic view reverses to personal attack of his opponent, rather than argue the issue on its merits. The movement that purports to preach love produced thousands of Jews whose knee jerk reaction to contradiction is a viscous, mean and cowardly sucker punch. Back to Tony Montana rage.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 5:25 pm #
I though that I am the evil dogmatist on this issue, and I refuse to take a one way stand here. Where did this rant come from?guravitzer 01.03.07 - 8:01 pm #
Ernest- you sickened me to the bone. "A mentch is a shpigel"- so from all your comments, Kirshenbaum must be the RUDEST, most dim-witted person to have ever lived if you seem to be so attracted to him... I dont even know him (or Rabbi Hecht)- but all Kirshenbaum's supporters on this blog write such nasty things, that it reflects so badly on him... and don't diss other people's organizations until you understand what an organization entails. Something else struck me while reading the article... It says that "Rabbi Hecht declined to comment on Prospect Heights..." DOESN'T THAT SHOW STRENGTH OF CHARACTER???? OBVIOUSLY Rabbi Hecht has his opinions on Prospect Heights- YET HE MAINTAINED HIS POSITION AS A RABBI AND REFUSED TO BESMIRCH ANOTHER JEW- which is something Rabbi Kastel should learn from...Yaakov 01.03.07 - 8:21 pm #
Kirshenbaum did not start a preschool, there are a few former Crown Heights couples, that are now completly "modern" which moved to the Prospect Heights Neibohrhood a few years ago. Now that they have children, and heaven forfend to send them to a religous school, the couples got together and started their own montesorri pre-school, which Kirshenbaum happens to send his child to as well. Ernest I only have one issue with your writings: "but they say Hecht's are smart", who is "they" that say Hecht's are smart.That tidbit of info, is news to my ears. Don't get me wrong I love Hecht's they are, fun, big-hearted, life of the party kinda of people, but smart well.............smunkis 01.03.07 - 8:21 pm #
Don't say things that you will not say in people's faces. This is beyond the pale. smunkis, I don't know about Hechts but you are an idiot.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 8:24 pm #
I must be a complete and utter idiot, because I have no idea what your previous comment meant.I should have figured, how dare I, comment on the omnipotent Tzemach Atlas' blog.smunkis 01.03.07 - 8:59 pm #
read again nowTzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 9:01 pm #
I agree with cross-eyed... Ernest, you just can't forgin how a person could outsmart you, the journalist, and the article....Shmuly 01.03.07 - 9:16 pm #
Figured that's what should have been written, but couldn't dare question TA's writing, lest I'd then have to go through a complete thrashing, consisting mostly of verbal diarrhea. Which would eventually conclude with you kicking me off your blog, like the dictator you so yearn to be. And I would have hated for it to have to come to that, being that I love reading your writings, or as they call it around the water cooler: Atlas' Crap Stew.smunkis 01.03.07 - 9:18 pm #
smukis, we could do without anal references around here.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.03.07 - 9:21 pm #
I just want to mention something I just read from Rabbi Yaakov Sallanter- that a Rav who does not have issues is not a real Rav. (In other words- but the same point...) In my humble opinion, I believe that this is true because a Rav sticks to facts of halacha and refuses to budge from it- which might cause some discomfort to his congregants. But it is the RIGHT thing to do... I met Rabbi Hecht on a couple of occasions and share a personal relationship with him. I am also friendly with some of his congregants. ANYONE who was turned off by him was NOT because he is insensitive (he actually is a very sentimental, sensitive person). Rather because his decisions ultimately did not sway one iota from the halacha. So regarding the fact that some of the people that posted mentioned that Ari Kirshenbaum has built up his shul on Rabbi Hecht's anti's, and on my own (and others) personal knowledge of Rabbi Hecht's character, I can safely claim two facts: 1) Rabbi Hecht is a man of integrity and halacha 2) If all the people that got turned off because of Rabbi Hecht went to Kirshenbaum (and that was all because of a halachic decision THEY did not like), then something must be halachically wrong with Ari.Eli 01.03.07 - 9:47 pm #
Ernest -My “repeated references” to “power” were quotes from an article in the NY Mag that started this thread, and off whose link we hang, here on Master TA’s domain. Sorry to hear you’ve got the flu, but it also allows me to excuse your shallow and off-topic rants that do little to blunt my comments and questions. I leave it to the reader who cares to study what’s written, to judge whether I’m brain-dead and whether you’ve just got sick-time on your hands with no head-space for pithy thoughts and simply wish to feed your addiction for debates. Or whether you are sicker than with just the flu. If you offered a semblance of response there would be what to “debate”, though I don’t seek debates. All you did is spew venom in a sweeping, circular motion. Replace the names involved in the current matter with names of people and organizations you don’t know. Focus on the facts you do know about the matter. Are they enough to render an opinion? If yes, do you still have a passionate and logical position to offer?cross-eyed 01.03.07 - 9:51 pm #
I don't know who this Ari or Rabbi Hecht is, but the notions that I perceived from this article were that:1)Kirshenbaum was behind this entire article2)I agree with Yaakov that Rabbi Hecht has his opinion, but has too much integrity to bad-mouth another Jew.Brad 01.03.07 - 9:52 pm #
cross-eyed you say what should be said. keep it up!Daniel 01.03.07 - 9:59 pm #
TA – You’re stuck on “patterns” you find “on this blog” (it’s more like you are drawn magnetically to them). Cute. This is your blog. You select the links and topics, direct and select response traffic… kinda hard not to like what you concoct (pattern) yourself. And you clearly own, with or without your blog and its “patterns,” some strong anti-Chabad Inc and Lubavitch-system sentiments. I’m with you on anti-cronyism and some other anti rants found here by you. But if you were half as smart as you think you are, you’d be able to step back often enough to recognize that the human weaknesses you wish to staple to a “movement” or “Inc” actually cut across every delineating line of human identity. You’ve got some personal unresolved hooks in the quicksand of organized, luba-ortho-judeo-religion. Resolving them is not as easy as cowardly sucker-punching “the movement.” Those who own a position which they aren’t intellectually strong enough to support, or one that is in fact unsupportable, do tend to resort to anything they can get their logical hands on, including personal attacks, and cowardly things. That’s got nothing to do with a movement. Lubavitch is not a person. It’s a concept. A lubavitcher is an individual, regardless of what label he chooses for himself or which shingle he wishes to hang outside his door. Judge him and his actions individually. Chassidus is not a person. It’s a theology. A chosid is an individual. Judge him on his own. “A humanoid representing the official Chabad Inc. dogmatic view” is just one humanoid. He may have personal shortcomings, which have nothing to do with theology. “The movement that purports to preach love” – movements don’t preach, people do. A movement may have official membership rules as to what and how and where to preach, but the preaching is done by individuals. Individual people produce “viscous, mean and cowardly sucker punch{s}”. People from all cultures do that. (It’s when a movement in its “bible” preaches hate, or edicts cowardly punches that one can focus on the movement).Overweight, smoking, drinking, couch potato doctors do not delegitimize the entire medical apparatus and all its theologies and knowledge.Separate your own personal issues from the movement that you may feel orphaned you. Maybe apply Koebler Ross’ steps to you and your dream of what Chabad/Lubavitch “is”. Anything ugly you apply as a rule to a *group* probably is from within yourself anyway. (Yes there are exceptions).Sorry, I’ve run out of energy for this. So my ramble stops here.I wish you a well-rounded, happy, rich existence that will enable more of the lucid, deep intelligence you own to blossom, so that our shared earth can be better, and less of the festering, poisonous acid that corrodes you and your container – the rest of us on earth.cross-eyed 01.03.07 - 10:36 pm #
Kol Hakavod cross-eyedJosh 01.03.07 - 10:57 pm #
Anybody who knows Kirschenbaum, would tell you outright that he would never hang his laundry in the press. he is wise beyond his years, non confrontational and caring. In fact he has taken the highroad for the past 3 years as hecht has time and again publicly disrespected kirschenbaum's official position as the prospect heights shliach by taking out ads in public papers as well as his own fictional publication and writing letters in public, placing them on public forum in which he used to try and misguide local residents. kirschnbaum has never dignified anything negative or responded to the many slurs and insults hurled at him. And for that he is to be lauded. What he has accomplished in his short time is simply historic. For the record, for those of you who simply make comments based on a three piece paragraph in a ny magazine, it would be wise to consider the following.. The author Debra N. Cohen is a local brooklyn resident who has had her issues with rabbi hecht in the past and through the power of the pen used her talent primarily at poking at orthodoxy and lubavitch in particular, both in her capacity as editor of the jewish week of ny and other media outlets. Simply put, she lives, hears, sees and understands all that transpires in a neighborhood no larger some of the starbucks in ny city. You don't have to be a genius to see the transparency in hects actions as they relate to Kirschenbaum and the prospect heights community. Interesting though, as a fort greene resident myself and part time attendee to kol Israel synagogue through the years, I can honestly say that for the 20 years he has resided in park slope he hasn't once done anything on behalf of our beloved house of worship and its jewish community, he wouldn't know if Charlton was a street name or an animated fictional children's character. Its obvious to all. What does Kirschenbaum stand to gain by letting the locals know that there is a rift by putting into the public domain? Wouldn't that make him look bad too? Where's As far as hecht's relationship with the other local Chabad rabbi's in the area. clearly stated. He does not get along with anybody, rabbi pinson no longer gives a class at his temple and hasn't for some time now, and has opened his own synagogue. R. cheikoff in dumbo is no longer under his nephew's (raskin's) jurisdiction now that the official Chabad board has removed him from his authority. So much for them all getting along. What's interesting is, is that hecht and his own nephew cant get along themselvesunless of course their united in destroying someone else. And indeed, hecht and his cronies (namely family members) should indeed feel threatened, for as Kirschenbaum, pinson and cheikoff continue to gain steam and popularity throughout brownstone brooklyn hecht is still stuck in the batters looking at a called strike three. To be sure pinson and Kirschenbaum give wonderful lectures and are warm human beings, something none has ever accused hecht of being. If only the man focused on cultivating his own area of park slope, large enough to contain 2-3 additional lubavitch rabbi's as well as many more jewish organizations, his life and legacy would be better off, but alas he is too worried about others people success. Indeed a shame. Poor frankel who works hard to make a living as a Judaica store cashier who innocently moved into an apartment owned by a hecht suporter only to be exploited by his own uncle for his personal agenda. Manipulation in the highest degree. The poor guy probably does not know what hit him. and mr. atlas, while i most of the time i find myself disagreeing with you, i must say you are right on the money on this one.ElliotElliot 01.04.07 - 12:06 am #
"and mr. atlas, while i most of the time i find myself disagreeing with you, i must say you are right on the money on this one."I don't have an opinion on this issue.Tzemach Atlas Homepage 01.04.07 - 12:11 am #
Elliot- I just can't help wondering where you get all your information from... and why you feel the need to post more slander against a Rabbi you apparently don't know...(that's Hecht and Frankel mainly). Rabbi Hecht has been accused of much greater things than just good lectures....And following your whole baseball metaphor, Hecht is more in the position of the umpire behind the batter with the ability to CALL the strike three, than any other position...Oh, and please don't be so righteous as to feel "so bad" for a "poor guy" named Tali, who "didn't know what hit him..." Tali knows exactly what hit him. He is an amazing guy with a heart as large as cosmic space, and he is well-loved and admired by EVERY SINGLE person (yes, even Kirshy's supporters...). And he has accomplished a tremendous amount in the short while that he has been here.Keep in mind that these are MY Rabbi's that you are dissing- and I don't appreciate it one bit. Get your facts straight and then come back and rewrite it.Elliot Jr. 01.04.07 - 12:41 am #
I wonder what happened to 'earnest', haven't seen from him in a while.What a shame there wont be any more "lively debates".Its never to late to do Teshuvah.lucky 01.04.07 - 1:55 am #
What a wonderful 'show'Keep it up Lubabs, you are losing more respect with everyone of your hateful posts.I'm talking to both sides.On the flipside there is one positive outcome from this fight:Anybody reading this site or hearing about this and similar stories will realize that their charity money is much better spent giving to real Jews, not a corporation called Lubavitch.Amanda 01.04.07 - 2:23 am #
yes better given to world jewich congress and the fereation to plant trees and every other pseudo judaic cause you can think of. lucky- im still here and prefer to be a spectator. i just enjoy watching people who demand facts and when they are presented by a knowledgable source they resort to 'elliot jr' like sentimental junk about cosmic hearts. once again we return to the sci-fi retorts.ernest 01.04.07 - 2:40 am #
not to mention funding legal fees, employee payouts etcahem 01.04.07 - 5:18 am #
I suspect many of the people writing on this blog regarding this issue are one and the same writing under different titles. It doesn't matter how much or how little Rabbi Hecht performs. According to Jewish Law there is no allowance for usurping, sidelining etc. someone from his position only because someone can do better, or becuase someone has some better ideas how to run the existing persons business. There must be legal halachik reasons to "eliminate" or "reduce" someone from his position. That's just the way G-d set it out. We don't install a side bar Rabbi in a Shul because Rabbi #2 is more liked or more qualified.G-d has set standards, and it's G-ds rules that make us Jewish people tick.Rabbi Hecht could be this or that, if it is his "territory" yes territory, just like saying, if its his Shul and these are the boundaries of his shul, no other Rabbi has a right to enter his jurisdiction without cooperation with the one who was there first.In civil societies we recognize this concept in all areas of industry, unless, you enter the world where "everyone eats the other alive".my opinion 01.04.07 - 10:41 am #
The current fracas in park slope is very different from the usual Chabad territorial disputes seen elsewhere. Unlike what Atlas is saying which is main stream mushroom philosophy, both sides believe in territorial control but each side claims to be the true proprietor. The park slope conflict is so unique because it’s a foreshadowing of things to come. NCFJE and Tzach are both sixty year old legitimate originations founded by the Rebbe. Rabbi Hecht and Kirshenbaum both are recognized by their different factions, invited to the kinnus and have access to the privete shluchim websites. And more importantly neither one can win support from Vaad Raboni Lubavitch. Whether you agree with it or not, 97% of the Shluchim believe in and accept the concept of central authority, head shluchim and territorial ownership. Look at the attendance of the unofficial Kinnus Hashluchim, which can’t even drew a hundred. However all this will change the minute the old geezers start kicking the bucket. Buried with them will be head Shliachus and central authority, replaced with many different factions claiming authority, which will eventually lead to everybody breaking up and becoming totally independent. I highly doubt there will be then a Kinnus or a private shluchim website. Park slope might just be the first dispute of that era.personally, I think Kirshenbaum is wrong and it has nothing to do with Chabad or territory. A twenty six year old pisher opened a synagogue in an area where a rabbi who’s old enough to be his father already has a congregation. Ok, he’s allowed. but on his first Pesech instead of attempting to have some sort of peaceful relationship, calls up the senior (older) rabbis congregation and attempts convince them to come to his own Seder and not rabbi Hechts disregarding basic moral ethical behavior. by Kirshenbaum's next board meeting, zul er huben a fully Burd!Der Yid 01.05.07 - 12:19 am #
Der Yid, when the old timers start to go I fear it will be far worse then everyone just "becoming totally independent". The system in place will implode with the likes of certain children of head shluchim taking the helm of leadership when they are far more suitable to be janitors in 770 Eastern Parkway.If they felt any sense of responsibility and commitment to Lubavitch then the leadership today would make this priority number one. They would set up a system of management and administration for future generations thereby preventing numerous problems that are bound to happen. No one is living forever (until the coming of Moshiach Tzidkenu ). The issues and confusion in this area that we have today are minuscule compared to the issues we are going to face in 20-30 years from now.Just A Guy 01.05.07 - 10:19 am #
"world jewich congress and the fereation to plant trees and every other pseudo judaic cause you can think of"Sigh. Its Keren Kayemet Leisrael, Jewish National Fund, that plants the trees. Federations supports social, educational, charitable purposes in local metro areas. Such "pseudojudaic" causes as senior citizens centers, hospitals, preschools, day schools, etc, etc. Which are open to and used by Jews of all trends. Note - Prospect heights is the area across from the Library and Brklyn Museum. Adjacent to Park Slope, but not the same area. Theres a very historic Reform shul there. In Pk Slope there is of course Beth Elohim (Reform) and Park Slope Jewish Center (Cons) as well as a modern O shul whose name I forget.justayid 01.05.07 - 10:34 am #
Don't know Hecht. The level of Kirschenbaum's success, B"H, is quite amazing, despite the fact that he is a great guy. Somebody up there likes him!Maimonides 01.05.07 - 10:55 am #
I would like to give maybe a bit of background in general on the Hecht’s and how they took the legacy of J.J Heact which is not clean at all as the world makes him:The Heact family is currently involved in many good things like:Din Torah one: Heact/Kaplan in Miami conflict with Rabbi Lifshets there.Din Torah two: Heact and the Chabad yeshiva in Monsey.Din Torah three: Heact and LYO.But to end off on a good note did i learn anything from theis people? The answer is yes from Shea Heact and I’ll explain:1. You red yarmulke or “kipa” it’s just so cool! When you’re walking with your kids together it’s unbelievable! A hall bunch of red kippas!2. Your down hat when both sides of your brim are down its unbelievable! (Did you realize yourself how cool it is?) 3. The amount of money you maid after Ari Halberstam was killed because you said kids in his class needed doctors! You’re really talented! Machon Chana: they where unable to keep the school going because a lack of funds then the closed it down do ms. L knowing how much Agmas Nefhes the Rebbe would have from it single handedly kept the school going the Hecht’s then succeeded to implement in peoples heads “that she stole the Rebbe”s Mosed”. Hadar torah: they take credit for that to! While for the last 10 years in their summer program called IV leg that has horrible attendants that something which fell apart also I believe they had 7 students there last summer! Thank g-d mayanot opened and gets most students for the summer. Aside for that they don’t give a penny to Hadar torah aside for the space which they make Silberstein pay theme for! There is a yid yakov Silberstein which funds the yeshiva single handedly! (but when the Hadar torah journal comes out the heact”s make sure that there is a big picture of J.J Heact there)moshe shua. 01.05.07 - 12:12 pm #
Just a guy Twenty or thirty years, which would make Avromel only 110?Der Yid 01.05.07 - 12:32 pm #
Avremel is 70Just A Guy 01.05.07 - 1:07 pm #
Who cares about all these Lubavitcher charlatans?Let's have some interesting postsRonnie 01.07.07 - 2:14 am #
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